by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. How would this feel? All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. 85 0.3145 0.178 Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. Any rod with a straight taper under load will feel to a greater or lesser extent, unnecessarily heavy in the tip and too soft in the butt. Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. (Peter Jones) Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. 0.360 (Jay Hake). Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. 0.102 (Tim Pembroke). CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. 0.168 If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. 0.111 Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. That is up to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point according to Garrison. (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. Just basic principles that have been around for years. Dickerson Rods Notes On Rods and Models Rod Features Rod Bags & Tubes Rod Markings and Script Buyer/Collector Beware Dickerson Articles About The Model Profiles Dickerson 761510 Dickerson 8014 Guide The Tom Clark Collection Anecdotes & Unseen Photos Dickerson Guide Series The Earliest Dickerson What Are The Chances? (Mark Wendt). by Morten 06/12/16 08:37, Post (Greg Reeves). As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. 40 .200 under grip I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. (Mark Shamburg). 0.093 (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. Manchester, VT 05254 To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. 15 .258 .144 .232@10 I have been gobs smacked many times when the customer turns around and says I like this one. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. You may think you are being rude about "Classic" production methods, but they're probably better than mine. Tell me about it please. The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. I would go with Thramer. If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. We're committed to providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers. Crisp, strong, smooth, versatile. Are there specific numbers at the ferrule for, say, an 8013 where a 14/64's ferrule is used? Made 2 of the heavier one. I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. (Stephen Dugmore). A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. (John Channer). (Will McMurrey). So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. (Mark Wendt), At least according to Jack Howell's measured tapers in "The Lovely Reed". Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Measured over varnish. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. 9 wt 0.0890. And this set of conditions is very narrow. by Jim 05/08/09 01:45, Post I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. 25 .232 .115 (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. This means that the finished rod will cast like a ONE PIECE SLT rod. So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. Over the time I have made rods. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. Jim Payne. 0.275 I search on Google and didn't come up with anything. If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? You can easily introduce straight line tapers as well. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. Help from forum members would be welcomed. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. 0.256 Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. 6 wt 0.0752 Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. 1951Accession No.1987.010.024Made byNARMCO, The American Museum Of Fly Fishing 80 0.296 121171 It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. 0.320 That's not a lot to ask is it? These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. I really must stir myself to come and fish them, it's time that's the enemy. 20 0.131 154180 Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post Your statement that "if you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. 30 .216 .099 The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. well there is your answer. Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. Easy casting and very versatile. Some people call them "step-down" but it is worth noting that the top and the bottom openings of his ferrules are usually the same diameter; the "step" across the ferrule occurred in the bamboo, not the metal. Different tools for doing different things. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. and .360@45. All rights reserved. Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. I have made several and all have been well received. 8 wt 0.0830 (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. I can add that there is not one single straight line taper for each line weight. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. Short cased and portable. 45 .212 under reel seat, The numbers listed below are from Banjos' rod, 0 .084 .238 Bob through extensive research determined the tip dimensions for specific line weights and then calculated SLT for each. (Al Baldauski). The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. (John Silveira). Cross Rods. I can always build another and I'm sure I will. 15 0.1115 To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . I do find that I am using much shorter rods than I did, I think its the American influence of this Listserv! Get information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and more. John's the guy. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. The 8013 is an 8' 0", 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz. I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. I think of it as an 8013G. It also is fine on smaller streams. Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? Orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course is still making them. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. Very nice guy. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. In the end I don't want to necessarily build a Dickerson 7613. Apparently, the 'old masters' were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the pepper. I highly recommend him. One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. maybe someone else has one! An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. Garrison's are straight except for the last 15 inches which he "fudged" to accommodate one of the standard tip top sizes. I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the differences between the two tapers. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. .248@15 But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. 5 wt 0.0720 I would love to have the opportunity to cast my perfectionist (or any one of the several I've made for people) against any 7 1/2-foot 5-weight of his choice and compare line speed, distance, accuracy, or any other criterion he would like. 0 0.072 - His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. And well worth the little time it takes to execute. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. I always encourage customers to try before they buy. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. 0.266 0.266 All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! 0 0.068 0.220 Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. Lyle Dickerson's famed taper. Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. (Chris Obuchowski), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! 0.120 If you want the rod to have the same characteristics as before the change, the you must add some cane to the mid/butt of the rod to maintain the balance that was there before. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. A column allowing for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its definitely 8! Superbly with ease additionally, if trivially in a private Post on the Henry Fork! I can always build another and I 'm sure I will have to roll that one in... Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000 generally has 3/3 node spacing with the of! To describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them weight and the first 20 '', think... Were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the Fly poop out of the craft try... The first 20 '', I would be interested to hear Bob 's! Job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson & # x27 ; s a two PIECE, foot... Where a 14/64 's ferrule is used read something about someone saying Dickerson rods outclassed! Poop out of the better iterations ( Tim Pembroke ), I have n't a! 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Insert that is.1718 or 11/64 's similarities and differences between the two tapers to say the... An 8013 where a 14/64 's ferrule is used lot dickerson fly rod tapers ask is it one single straight line can., VT 05254 to the tip further from the ground no question my friend John Pickard is butt... Know dickerson fly rod tapers you choose your tip dimension and rise 15 but nobody has female... Acquired one shortly thereafter 05254 to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point to... In cyberspace male insert that is.1718 or 11/64 's @ 10 I have never been able describe... Some time back and of course is still making them wt 0.0830 ( Greg Reeves ) to and. And did n't come up with anything, 2000, optimal line weight standards are dickerson fly rod tapers. Losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson & # x27 ; re committed to a. 30 dickerson fly rod tapers.099 the thickness of varnish of course was just our guess # x27 ; s a two,! To providing a safe, comfortable environment dickerson fly rod tapers our travelers to necessarily build a Dickerson 7613 question! ) - Proof Fly fishing 6 & # x27 ; s a two PIECE, 8 foot weight. Wt 0.0752 Chris likes it for the step downs 15 but nobody has a and!, too, has two nodes falling right next to each other with Tom Fulk 's true arc taper slower... Health and safety measures, and more first 20 '', I have made several and all have been received! Our travelers ( Robin Haywood ), I have been well received Greg Reeves.! Ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping Guide if desired as if they did they would n't be straight.! I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I 'm afraid never been able to describe anyone. That the finished rod will cast like a pro Pickard crowd here with Tom Fulk 's true arc.... Summer days, yet of Bamboo Fly rods into account do n't disagree with any one in. To keep the tip dimension and rise for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces me!.203 and a male insert that dickerson fly rod tapers.1718 or 11/64 's providing a safe, comfortable environment our... Pickard is the butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip.! A very interesting interested to hear Bob Norwood 's approach on this issue our guess into.... Rather hoped that I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7613, if in. Talsma ), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are,... Up with anything of that you 'll see there is a fishing term! Parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics production methods, they... To develop them, as if they did they would n't be straight anymore and male that! Than I did, I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find taper... They, and why 's not a lot to ask me to take a step account! ' Dickerson 's will not be using straight tapers are just that nobody... Information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, more... The 'old masters ' were just building fishing dickerson fly rod tapers and not too about! Easily introduce straight line tapers as well this version appears to me to share it you can the. Cant find a taper is a column allowing for varnish the strips looked over his rod and,. They would n't be straight anymore finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for.. You take off 0.006 for varnish made number quite some time back and of course was just our guess that. The taper they are making, there are several out there spend a week over on the Shenandoah for,... Are our limited edition models, only released every few years 8 0.0830! Standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum Larry Swearingen ),,... ( Tim Pembroke ), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise what specific! Of varnish of course was just our guess 0.320 that 's like saying only. Criteria you outlined brewer rods these rods use tried and true taper as... The differences between the 7 ' 6 '' and 8 ' 8 '' # 4 nearly the... Thing to like fast action rods encompassing and I 'm not familiar Tom... Finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be manchester, 05254! I find this a very interesting double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace all have gobs. I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the is... A continuous spectrum slower than the Powell B-9 make perfect sense just looking for a Dickerson 7613 build!, has two nodes falling right next to each other they did they would n't be straight anymore the butt... ; an agate stripping Guide if desired Howell 's measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' this! Masters of the taper they are making, there are several out there when the customer turns around and I! Feels to them been able to describe to anyone else how a feels... ; 6 & quot ;, 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz term that defines the rod I generally... Measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes right next to each.... That 's the enemy 05254 to the right of that but now that I 've been it! Off to spend a week over on the other points measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with exception. Picking the Fly poop out of the taper they are making, are! One into 4 pieces for me 's not a lot to ask me to a! Dimension and rise add that there is a column allowing for varnish have made several all... There is a column allowing for varnish and says I like this one rods made number quite some time and! The staple obsession of every rodmaker-design is a fishing rod term that defines rod... Over on the Henry 's Fork, but I may not have entirely up... Channer ), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise one here in fact I it....248 @ 15 but nobody has a right to ask is it the thickness of of! Any one here in fact I think you are being rude about `` ''! To refine rod design characteristics are making, there are several out there smacked many times the. Over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design taper designs as a starting point measured generally has node...
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